SONYA BALLANYTNE and RHAEL MCGREGOR in introspection and reflection on THE UNBEATABLE SONYA BALLANTYNE

From Highwater Press, The Unbeatable Sonya Ballantyne, is a (bio)graphic novel by Sonya Ballantyne, joined by artist Rhael McGregor with Interviews Editor, Andrew Irvin.

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COMIC BOOK YETI: Sonya and Rhael, it is a delight to have you both stop by the Yeti Cave to chat about your eponymous title (for you, at least, Sonya), The Unbeatable Sonya Ballantyne. How is everything up in Winnipeg? Are you still in the thick of winter weather?

SONYA BALLANTYNE:  It just snowed massively as I write this and yet I needed a Coke Zero so of course I ran out to the nearest store to get it. My local store certainly sees me at my worst. 

RHAEL MCGREGOR: Yes, I am a huge fan of the snow though so I’m enjoying a bit more time with it before the spring!

CBY: I hope you're both staying warm! You’ve also both worked together on Little by Little You Can Change the World and separately Sonya, you contributed to Between the Pipes (with Albert McLeod and Elaine Mordoch interviewed here) and Rhael, you worked on Visions from the Fire (recently covered in conversation with Wanda John-Kehewin and Nicole Marie Burton). How did the two of you initially meet and decide to start working together?

SB: I had known about Rhael before working with them as I was in the process of writing The Unbeatable Sonya Ballantyne at the time I was offered Little by Little.... I really liked Rhael’s style and it meshed with the “magical realism” I was going for with this book. I knew I wanted to have these sort of manga cartoon-y facial expressions for this story because of its content. Plus, I knew Rhael would portray the Reserve as I always saw it: a magical place with its flaws. 

RM: I’d known of Sonya before Little By Little.... I remember following her on social media and admiring from afar, so it was very exciting learning we’d be working on Little By Little... and then later The Unbeatable Sonya Ballantyne together! I was really honoured to be chosen by Sonya for her book, and it was so fun being able to push the anime expressions and really have fun with the style!

CBY: Yeah, the playfulness in the expressions definitely comes through. Before diving in, it’s worth noting those others credited on this title not present for the interview today; Azby Whitecalf handled colouring duties, and Kielamel Sibal was your letterer, with design by Jennier Lum. How did you pull everyone onto the project, and is there anyone else who was involved in bringing this story to the public you’d like to make mention of today?

SB: Shout out to Azby, Kielamel, and Jennifer! It is really fascinating to see this sort of thing start with just a word document and have it become this brilliant piece of art. Me and Rhael were talking about getting the final printed book in our hands when it became real, and it was just such a miracle. 

RM: Definitely agree with Sonya. I hadn’t seen any of Azby, Kielamel, or Jennifer's work on the project before getting the printed copies and their work just tied everything together so well. I think all of us together made a really cohesive and strong team! Not to mention our editing and promotion team at Highwater!

CBY: From the outside, the community of creators fostered by Highwater Press seems very cohesive. As we proceed with discussing the content of the comic, we should note this book includes scenes related to bullying, racism, and self-harm. It is also framed as a superhero story to provide narrative distance from these dimensions of trauma. How much of this interpretive exercise is for your own personal reflection and emotional processing, and at what point does it become about the audience and communicating the idea externally, Sonya? Rhael, what are the first pieces of information provided by Sonya that allow you to start shaping the visual side of the narrative and understand the tone you want to achieve with your illustrations?

SB: How I survived a large part of my childhood was due to seeing my own worth through the eyes of Superman. The movies and pop culture I consumed gave me hope for a better world. I saw so much apathy around me that the earnestness of Superman really connected to me. I once called him my “guiding spirit.” And throwing up from motion sickness in a car as a child while I read about kryptonite was a wonderful answer to a question I asked myself a lot as a child, “Why am I so different?” 

And it felt like there was no other way to talk about that part of my life but as a comic book. 

RM: I asked Sonya early on for as many reference photos and descriptions as possible. I wanted to make sure I was staying as accurate as I could to her experience. Sonya had also told me to go all out on the anime/cartoon style, which I think also helped me understand the emotional side of the visuals and how I could really make moments shine through style by capturing that wonder, hope, and passion.

CBY: That intentional characterization and tone comes through clearly, Rhael. Sonya, you speak a bit about your journey toward becoming a writer, and advice to “read and write a lot,” features in the graphic novel, but not having enough fellow First Nations authors to relate to early in your journey as a writer. Who have both of you found as role models or creative inspiration in your writing and illustration careers? 

SB: My biggest creative inspirations would have to be Stephen King and Bono of U2. It was both who taught me that you can’t write like your heroes, you have to write as yourself. I tried so hard as a teen to write like Stephen King and it never felt natural. I heard Bono tell a story once about how he tries to write a song like his favourite band, The Ramones. He realized it was easier to write a song as himself. 

I also really credit Michelle Thrush, who I talk about in the book. I was told repeatedly as a child that Cree women couldn’t be artists and just by having Michelle on my rez in a play made me feel like I could be an artist too. 

RM: I think when I started my career, I was really inspired by Indigenous authors and cartoonists around me - Sonya being one of them! Folks like Alice RL, Autumn Crossman-Serb, Milo Puge, Azby Whitecalf, Jordanna George, Cole Pauls, the list goes on! I used to struggle a lot with identity and feel very unsure of myself as a storyteller, but everyone I named and more has always supported, inspired, and challenged me to grow. I’m just so thankful to be surrounded by community and to be a part of it!

CBY: Having of foundation laid by the examples of others to build upon definitely helps a creative find their own footing. Sonya, you mention Bono above, and explore the influence music had on channeling your emotions to a place beyond despair alone; you give some space for the role of Joshua Tree by U2, and the influence it had on motivating you towards activism, and you mention other bands such as Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds and the Buzzcocks. What has shaped both of your musical tastes over the course of your life, and how does your auditory aesthetic play into your verbal and visual choices? Is there a kind of sweeping synesthesia you find in your work, or do you find more isolated, targeted inspiration through music?

SB: Movies have really influenced my musical choices. I remember reading this magazine article of a list of the Best Rock Performances in Films and they included Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds’ in Der Himmel über Berlin. I knew nothing about either but the pictures of the scene looked cool so I sought out the film. The movie Ghost World was what got me into the Buzzcocks as their song “What do I get?” plays in the scene where Enid is washing her hair. 

The idea of “punk rock” as an aesthetic was something I knew I wanted present, even though I ask Rhael to dress me a bit more punky than I was in reality. 

RM: I’ve always been the kind of person who listens to individual songs rather than an album, and often on loop. This hasn't changed very much even as I’ve gotten older. I’ll often use a certain loop of songs (or even sometimes just one) when working on a section of illustration so when I look back I often find myself thinking about that song I was listening to at the time. Sometimes you just really love one song and it makes you feel so great (and gets you in the zone) that you have to listen to it on loop 248 times straight.

CBY: It becomes mantra-like at that point. I totally get that, Rhael. Another point of inspiration and guidance shared in this graphic novel is the role of family. Sonya, your relationship to your grandparents was explored in at least as much depth as your experience with your parents; was this partly in memoriam? What current understanding of family can both of you share around how to build healthy relationships and find support where it matters most with those who should provide safe space for self-expression and personal growth? 

SB: I am estranged from my living parents. But I have a few good memories of them from that time, and that’s what I really wanted to portray here, as that was how the Sonya of those times saw her parents. Besides I wouldn’t have liked movies had it not been for them. 

The inclusion of my grandparents was something I knew I had to do just because their deaths were the true end of my childhood (they died the summer I turned 18 within four months of each other). And it felt like I was visiting them when Rhael sent me the first drawing she did of how my grandparents would look in the book. It was nice to see them both after so long. 

RM: I think sometimes when you grow up in spaces where love isn’t demonstrated in a healthy way, it can be very easy to find yourself in similar situations when you grow up. You really have to analyze these relationships and see who you thrive around and then surround yourself with those people. I think if you surround yourself with people that inspire, support, and challenge you to grow- you’re with family whether that’s a blood relative, a friend, a partner, you want to be around people that want to see you thrive in the same way you do them.

CBY: The Unbeatable Sonya Ballantyne has bold line work and vivid color throughout. Despite some heavy subject matter, the art carries a lot of energy. What sort of correspondence and conversations went into cultivating the art style? Sonya, how did you convey the visual style you wanted in your script, and Rhael, what sort of tools and techniques did you use to achieve the look of this comic (and was the process any different from previous work you’ve completed?)

SB: With Rhael, I would give them references, not just of my family but of the places and the movies inspiring certain scenes within the story. I basically told everyone that I wanted to tell a Batman story with Superman colours. I also think it was Rhael who pitched that bit with my halo in the scene where I am begging to go to bible camp. The first time I saw it, I laughed so hard and thought it was perfect. 

RM: I grew up sneaking off to the library to read Shoujo Manga, and a lot of my emotional visuals (like the halo, haha) come from that sort of pushing of expressions. Maximum drama, maximum romanticization, maximum fun. This book was probably the closest to my own style of drawing at the time I drew it, so it was a very familiar drawing process and very easy to lose myself in drawing for Sonya’s story.

CBY: I know you’re both multifaceted creative practitioners with work in other media beyond comics, including filmmaking and animation. What is next on the agenda for both of you? Do you also have any wishlist projects you’d like to pull together with others whose work you respect across the comics community?

SB: I’m currently the writer in residence at the University of Manitoba (my old school). I’m also working on another memoir in the style of Angela’s Ashes, but for middle years. 

RM: I have a very busy year between teaching a class at Red River College, working character design on a CBC show, Kristy Jackson and I are going to be continuing the Mortified & Touching Grass series, I’ve got some of my own work I’m in the process of creating and pitching, and that’s just everything I can at least publicly talk about at this moment! I don’t have any specific list, but I’m always excited to see more Two-Spirit cartoonists. It’d be cool to do an anthology one day!

CBY: Sonya, this story provides a collection of reflections that span the course of your childhood, and dispenses various nuggets of wisdom you’ve picked up along the way for the benefit of younger readers. To our audience, what can both of you share for our readers who have been enjoying comics, but perhaps haven’t embarked on the journey of creating their own (yet)?

SB: Stephen King once said that there’s a lot of talented people out there who could write a book and never do. A writer is someone who finishes writing that book. The first draft doesn’t have to be good, and you’ll always want to improve, but once I stopped trying to write like Stephen King and wrote like me, I started getting jobs and noticed for my work.

Just write. You can make it good later. 

RM: I totally echo what Sonya is saying. To add on, I would say start small, especially if you’re a cartoonist. You can still tell a cool story in 10 pages and you’ll have great practice for the next time you make one. My whole comics career started because of a 12 page comic I posted online. You just have to make it exist.

CBY: As is customary, we always provide an opportunity for creators to share unrelated comics, music, movies, literature, art, etc. that have been catching your attention and inspiring you lately. Once readers check out The Unbeatable Sonya Ballantyne, what should they make sure they don’t miss out upon from the wider world of creative work?

SB: Check out the most recent Superman. It’s such a hopeful and earnest message for these times and that shot of Superman in the clouds is top three shots of all time. 

RM: If you’re looking for some great manga recommendations, I’d suggest Delicious in Dungeon, Witch Hat Atelier, and Skip & Loafer!

CBY: Sonya and Rhael, thanks for the recommendations and for stopping by to chat about your latest work. If you have other portfolio, publication, or social media links you’d like to share with our audience, please include whatever you’re keen to publicize here at the close.

SB: Check me out on instagram at sonya_ballantyne. 

RM: You can find me on most socials under @raysdrawlings

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