OCTAVIA BUTLER'S PARABLE Series Returns, Courtesy of DAMIAN DUFFY & JOHN JENNINGS

One of the most prescient and poignant authors of her time, Octavia Butler's Parable novels have been given the graphic novel treatment by Damian Duffy & John Jennings, who join Interviews Editor, Andrew Irvin to discuss the adaptations, published by AbramsComicArts.

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COMIC BOOK YETI: Damian and John, welcome to the Yeti Cave! How are things going out in Illinois and California, respectively?

DAMIAN DUFFY: Thanks for having us! Illinois is stumbling towards something like spring, and our Governor is pretty loudly against authoritarianism. So, we’ve got that going for us.

JOHN JENNINGS: 

Thanks so much. Nice cave you have here, by the way! 

CBY: Glad to have you both in good spirits (and it's easy to keep a virtual space like the Yeti Cave ready for guests). I'm incredibly excited for this, given the near-future nature of my professional and academic research, as Octavia Butler’s Parable of the Sower and Parable of the Talents represent two of the most moving and prescient pieces of climate fiction to emerge from the 20th Century. I can see why they’d be a fitting choice to follow your 2017 adaptation of Kindred. The Q&A afterword explains how you became involved in the expansion of these stories with the Butler estate and Abrams ComicArts. How did the two of you initially meet, and what put the first attempt from Beacon Press at adaptation of Butler’s work on your radar back in 2009?

DD: We met some twenty-plus years ago at the University of Illinois, when John brought Understanding Comics author Scott McCloud to speak for his design class, and I ended up crashing the dinner after the talk, through mutual friends. After that we connected on our shared interests in comics and art and hip hop and culture and horror movies and whatnot. And now he is stuck with me. I read about an open call for Beacon Press’s original attempt at a graphic adaptation of Kindred in a Publishers Weekly newsletter. The pitch was due in something like a week-and-a-half, and it was the worst timing. I was new in a PhD program, and my son wasn’t even a year old yet, so my memories are blurry, but I do know John was traveling that week, and had to overnight ship art for me to scan in and piece together in Photoshop.

But John and I are such enormous fans of Butler’s work and, for me, Kindred in particular was a very formative text in learning to be a writer. And Butler’s focus on using speculative fiction to interrogate the sociopolitics of cultural identity was something we had already been exploring in our first graphic novel, The Hole. It just seemed meant to be.

And it very much was not, because we didn’t get the job adapting Kindred for Beacon Press.

Which made the entirely coincidental and unrelated opportunity to adapt Kindred for Abrams ComicArts a few years later such a surprise.

JJ: We’re still shocked that this came back to us and that we’ve now adapted three of this amazing woman’s works into graphic novels.

CBY: Hopefully our readers can check out The Hole and see the evolution of your work as you've built your collaboration over the years. Octavia Butler’s estate, now managed by her family and represented by her literary executor, Merrilee Heifetz of Writers House, has elected to invest in an ongoing collaboration with both of you to bring her work to life across this third joint effort. Can you tell us about the broader creative, editorial, and publishing team involved in bringing these graphic novels to readers worldwide? Editor Charlotte Greenbaum, Art Director/Design Manager Pamela Notarantonio, and Production Manager Erin Vanderveer have been with you on both editions, with the team including; Designer Max Temescu, Managing Editor Amy Vreeland on Sower and Editor in Chief Charles Kochman, Assistant Editor Lydia Nguyen, Designer Josh Johnson, Managing Editor Marie Oishi, artist David Brame, and Color Flats Coordinator Alexandria Batchelor joining for Talents. Can you share a bit about everyone’s involvement in the project? Did I leave anyone out? 

DD: I’ll do my best with my somewhat limited knowledge of the roles of everyone involved—as a curator of the Megascope line for Abrams ComicArts, John has the opportunity to work more closely with some of the fine people at our publisher than I do. So,  hopefully he can correct and/or fill in anything I screw up.

First off, David Brame is the layout artist on Parable of the Talents, drawing panel compositions, basic figures, basic backgrounds for John to digitally ink over in ProCreate. Alexandria Batchelor went above and beyond, making a kind of color bible for different characters’ hair colors and skin tones, different backgrounds, things like that. Alex and John worked together to divide up and coordinate the work of putting down base colors with a team of color flatters. (Once those are done, John does the finishes—shading, highlights, texture, etc.)

A lot of my interaction with art direction, production, and design is at the beginning—getting the template to use for lettering finished art—and at the end—uploading and troubleshooting completed art files for each page. I know we’ve been working with Pamela Notarantoinio since Kindred, and I believe she’s the one who originated the style of the titles across all three books. I’m pretty sure Josh Johnson did design work on the cover for Talents, and I know I’ve been a fan of his lettering in some of the Megascope books. Some Managing Editors I believe I’ve only known via notes they’ve provided on drafts of the script, or met briefly, and Assistant Editor Lydia Nguyen has always been very helpful and responsive with any organizational and logistical questions I’ve bugged her with. 

Charlie Kochman is a driving force of the ComicArts imprint, and has been a peerless supporter and partner in working with Merilee Heifetz and the Butler estate, who have our eternal gratitude for letting us help contribute to Butler’s substantial legacy.

I’m sure I’ve left people out, but I don’t want to go on forever. Mostly I’d just like to say that we’re extremely lucky to be able to work with Abrams and the Butler Estate on these projects, and my deepest thanks to everyone involved in the massive collaboration that brought the Parable of Talents graphic novel into existence. 

A few other people to add to the list are Tananarive Due, who was kind enough to be a reader and consultant on the two Parables adaptations, as well as Director of Marketing & Publicity Jacquelene Cohen, and David Hyde and Dustin Holland of Superfan Promotions, who make things like this interview happen.

JJ: I think Damian did a great job with this one so, I’ll just add that we wouldn’t be able to make these books happen without a trusted team of people behind us making sure things run smoothly as possible. 

CBY: Yeah, Damian, thank you for providing such a thorough dissection of what goes into a publication like this - hopefully it helps our readers expand their appreciation for the range of considerations that go into turning a written vision into a visual reality. The conflict of both The Parable of The Sower and The Parable of the Talents can be distilled to what I gather is perhaps the most ominous and foreboding quote from Earthseed: The Books of the Living is the following: “Beware: At War Or at peace, More people die Of unenlightened self-interest Than any other disease.” 

It doesn’t reckon with the idea of God - it takes the folly of humanity and centers it as the threat to Earthseed. As unenlightened self-interest is the prevailing governance model in the United States at the national scale these days (and late-stage capitalist philosophy, more broadly) and it is now creating massively disruptive waves across various dimensions of global society, what do Butler’s perspectives and lessons offer readers in these times where countervailing action is needed to address the ways in which leaders confidently believe they know enough about where they’re heading to avoid treading lightly and callously propagate waste and brutality? How do Butler’s words serve as a clarion call for solidarity and action against unenlightened self-interest in the present moment? 

DD: Well, Butler intended her words as a warning. She was pretty clear that she had no ambition to be prophetic in writing these stories and, yet, here we are. But, I think, beyond the warning, Parable of the Talents shows that hope of effective change is only possible through survival and perseverance. Butler’s biggest advice for writers was to focus not on talent but on persistence, on putting in the work instead of waiting for divine inspiration. This translated into Earthseed as the notion of a persistent, positive obsession, as a means forward, despite whatever surrounding strife and heartbreak rages around you. From the name of Olamina’s religion, to the title of its foundational text, to the verses from The Books of the Living, the crux of Earthseed seems to be building life, by which I mean being constructive in order to resist the destructive forces unleashed by that “disease” of unenlightened self-interest. 

I think Butler’s writing encourages building communities, creative works, movements, and social networks that support and uplift basic human rights, dignity, and equality. And I mean, that’s in the text of Parable of the Talents, but that’s also in the way that just the existence of her entire body of work continues to have tangible impacts outside the page—from the Octavia E. Butler Magnet school and Octavia’s Bookshelf bookstore in Pasadena, where Butler was from, to andrienne maree brown’s translation of Earthseed into real-life practice, in her book Emergent Strategy. 

It’s only through that kind of persistent forward progress, by individuals working towards shared goals over long and sustained periods of time, that we can achieve some measure of enlightenment—and I believe enlightenment comes with an empathetic understanding that our self-interests are never truly disconnected from the interests, needs, and lives of everyone else. And, taking that into account, finding ways to collectively act to turn the tide against destructive, extractive relationships and systems. Which is, I realize, nothing like a satisfying answer. At one point in Talents, even Olamina admits that Earthseed isn’t a particularly comforting belief system. But, like the literary works it exists in, Earthseed values unvarnished truth over comfort. And the truth is everyone who believes in certain basic, let’s call them unalienable rights, has to find ways into the messy work of constructing coalitions to uphold and defend those rights when the unenlightened selfish try to take them away.

JJ: Butler always writes about various levels of power and, in these two books, she masterfully deals with the uncomfortable nature of just what it takes to salvage hope, faith and belief in a world that has turned its back on all three. 

CBY: Damian, I think you've circled in on the dichotomy I often pose as a question, "would you rather be comfortable, or considerate?" John, framing it as a salvaging exercise is apt, as those in power are enjoying comfort at the expense of considering what it is they're trashing in the process. Asha Vere, the character from which the perspective of Parable of the Talents is primarily narrated, says, “It’s hard to believe it happened here, in the United States, in the 21st Century, but it did. Andrew Steele Jarret scared, divided, and bullied people into letting him “fix” the country with fascism.” This quote, if Jarret’s name was replaced with Trump’s, would accurately describe the current situation our nation faces, with ICE pulling the same paramilitary crimes as the SS did under Nazi Germany in 1934. The erosion of norms initiated by the Republicans and abetted by Democrats too cushioned and corrupt to mount a defense on behalf of the broader constituency has fostered an ongoing constitutional crisis, and the American public has proven too illiterate and frightened to mount a successful defense of the civic institutions too eroded by corporate capture to represent the people’s needs. As planetary boundaries are being breached, what do this pair of stories illustrate about fear and tribalism in the face of societal perceptions of uncertainty and insecurity?

DD: The horrors of the story are the horrors of the world. Preeminent Butler scholar Dr. Ayanna Jamieson posted on social media, “Parable of the Sower was not a guidebook or prophecy, it was a meticulously researched warning based on evidence gathered over decades,” and that’s equally true for Parable of the Talents. Butler wanted to know how a country could become fascist, so she researched 1930s Germany.

I’m paraphrasing, but Butler’s feeling was that the problem with human beings is that we’re intelligent, but hierarchical, and quick to place ourselves at the top of any hierarchy. Fear and tribalism in the face of societal perceptions of uncertainty and insecurity are so predictable that, if you pay close enough attention, you can make a stunningly accurate guess from 30 years in the past.

I was talking to my wife about these interview questions, and she summed it up better than I could: “Listen to Black women.” 

Which is, as is often the case, a major takeaway we ignore at our great peril. 

It reminded me of the title of Monica A. Coleman and Tananarive Due’s 2020 podcast, “Octavia Tried to Tell Us.”

JJ: As Damian stated, Butler wasn’t a soothsayer. She was a highly gifted writer and researcher who truly cared about humanity’s future. She didn’t write fantasy. She reported the truth in a fanciful manner. However, the truth about mankind’s nature is always there staring back at us. 

CBY: I think the complexity is fully captured - we cannot live in the light without casting a shadow upon the world. It isn’t often I cry while reading comics, but the unrelenting conveyance of the wholly avoidable loss and damage wrought by the brutality of human action is on full display, and it’s a bit overwhelming at points. It was hard enough reading Butler’s original words, and the framing of the narrative in illustrated form lacks none of the impact created by the text. You’ve both mentioned the gravity of the prose and its significant impact on how you viewed the world around you in its resemblances to the text. In what ways has this process of adapting Butler’s work informed the way you approach conveying your own ideas and emotions both as storytellers and communicators more broadly in social settings? 

DD: Our most important job with these projects is to honor Butler’s original by conveying the same emotionality through comics that she did through prose, so thank you so much. I know this isn’t exactly what you’re asking, but one way that Butler’s writing has informed mine is that I picked up the habit of using em-dashes a lot more often—maybe too often.

Beyond that, I’m certain that immersing myself in Butler’s prose and adapting it to comics has had an effect on the ways I approach pacing and story structure, but I’m not sure I can even articulate how, exactly. Definitely the terseness of her prose, mixed with the page requirements of graphic novels has influenced my approach to writing and especially rewriting dialog—in learning to edit things down to their essential elements.

In broader social settings, I definitely try to work into conversation that I won a Hugo Award, so that’s been a big change in my communication.

Sorry. Kidding.

I suppose I have trouble disentangling the effects of adapting, and talking about, and talking about adapting Octavia E. Butler has had on me, from the many other changes that have also changed me throughout the decade-ish John and I have been working on these projects. 

JJ: These works are heavy. I totally cried during the process of drawing Kindred. I literally wept onto the pages of art as I made them. There’s responsibility to get these books right that pervades our process. We both hope in some way that we’ve introduced new readers to this brilliant woman’s stories. She put everything she had into them. We tried to do the same to honor her.

CBY: John, I think that's a clear indication you've tapped into something powerful, when the emotion is salient from the moment the ink hits the page, so to speak. And Damian, if you win a Hugo Award, one of the privileges is that you're then allowed to kid about winning it. Another quote from Earthseed: The Books of the Living that goes beyond the idea of God as Change and Change as God; “Partnership is giving, taking, learning, teaching, offering the greatest possible benefit while doing the least possible harm. Partnership is mutualistic symbiosis. Partnership is life.”

While I only read this pair of books for the first time in the past year - eerily starting the week of the 20th of July, 2024 when Parable of the Sower begins - many of the ideas at both the local and cosmic scale were familiar, if not something implicitly understood in my worldview, which has been predicated on embracing change. I would say one of the greatest challenges I’ve faced in my life is forging partnerships with others willing to embrace change in a similar manner. Butler’s work is not your only collaborative effort, so how do you achieve this both in your creative partnership and in your lives beyond your work?

DD: In terms of our creative partnership, I think it’s helpful that John and I (and David Brame) have worked together for long enough, and know each other well enough, that we’re all more concerned with contributing to the whole, as opposed to just our part of the work. John and I tend to keep our creative process flexible enough that we can change the ways that we work together to fit the narrative needs and scheduling restrictions of each particular project. Because when it’s about the work, and what’s best for the work, it becomes easier to compromise, because it’s about something other than your ego. If telling the story the best way possible—given whatever resources are available and constraints are unavoidable—becomes paramount, then there’s a shared understanding, a shared goal on which to build.

And I suppose that’s true in life beyond work. Focusing on living something like the moments of Parable of the Talents that happen between the dystopia, even as the apocalyptic noise works to drown them out. 

In between all the atrocities Olamina and Asha Vere go through in their lives, there are moments of love, collaboration, creativity, companionship, and understanding. Personally, I think I’m not the best at embracing change. In my day to day life, I don’t know that I’d characterize myself as a stalwart follower of the practices espoused by Earthseed. But the advice of one verse I do my absolute best to live by is, “Kindness eases Change.” If everything I’m doing flows from that, I feel like I’m doing okay as an individual human. 

JJ: Both Damian and David are extremely talented, passionate, gifted, wise, and respectful collaborators. I know that I can count on their expertise and their grace with whatever project(s) we take on. It’s very rare. I’m forever grateful that I brought Scott McCloud to our campus. Our partnership has defined how I make work and changed how I see the medium of comics. 

CBY: Yours is a great example of how moments of connection serve as catalyst for strong bonds, with such a clear example as an event centered around McCloud's espoused ethos of improving our capacity for understanding comics and understanding through comics. On cultivating understanding, a recurring theme is the connection between the self and the infinite;  “The Destiny of Earthseed

Is to take root among the stars.

It is to live and to thrive On new earths.

It is to leap into the heavens 

Again and again.

It is to explore the vastness Of heaven.

It is to explore the vastness

Of ourselves.”

From the derision pointed at the recent Blue Origin NS-31 flight reflecting criticism of spacefaring as frivolity to the monumental finding on exoplanet K2-18b of gases (Dimethyl Sulfide and Dimethyl Disulfide) known on Earth specifically as signatures of life, perspectives on the prospect of humanity beyond our planet are as varied and extreme as the spectrum allows. I’ve gotten into heated arguments with colleagues over the value of space exploration, so I’m keen to hear; what are your thoughts on the galactic role of humanity, and how does your awareness of our position in the cosmos change your perspective on the daily lives you lead in your immediate surroundings?

DD: The critique of space travel as frivolous, as a “dangerous fantasy,” by people in Parable of the Talents who oppose Lauren and the Destiny of Earthseed (“to take root among the stars”), tends to make the classic late capitalist mistake of focusing on product over process. The idea of the Destiny in Earthseed is that all the work members do towards achieving interstellar travel, all the marshaling of resources, the scientific research, the breakthroughs in biomedical science, in engineering, etc., will have also produced many other things whose value and significance will positively impact everyday life here on Earth. I think the critiques of the Blue Origin flight are perfectly valid, not because spacefaring is frivolous, but because a billionaire devoting their near-limitless resources to having celebrities spout cliches and hang out in the upper atmosphere for 11 minutes is frivolous. 

I think the potentials for scientific, technological, and philosophical breakthroughs found in space exploration can’t be overstated. Butler’s focus on interstellar travel came from her belief that the 1960s space race between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. was a rare example in international competition creating scientific and technological progress without an attendant escalation towards destructive outcomes like nuclear warfare. And I think there is some truth to that, although there are also many complicated questions about the environmental impacts of launching rockets and satellites into space, and it’s not like rocket science isn’t also about shooting missiles at people in other countries. 

But, yeah, exploration for the purposes of research and the potential for life or living on other planets, that can answer questions and lead to unforeseen benefits for people on Earth. Getting the hot takes of pop stars and TV hosts on what it’s like to see the planet from the outside is maybe beneficial to people who like to make snarky memes, but beyond that, I just don’t see it as anything other than a grotesque performance of wealth and privilege. 

JJ: I personally think that we should deal with the world that we are supposed to be stewards of first. The billionaires who use their wealth to showboat could, essentially, make so much of the world better by shifting a small portion of their resources to do so. It’s not too late to make a beautiful livable world here on Earth. I think that Butler wanted this as well. 

CBY: I’ve mentioned the impact this work has had on me, but part of what makes it so evocative is the expressive, visceral approach to visualizing the range of what transpires over the story of these books. Color is vividly employed to convey emotional range, and the array of brush textures for shading, motion, and other formal elements of the scenery and characters are both idiosyncratic and have the ability to impress upon the reader more than they may literally represent on the page. Can you share a bit about the technical process involved in both of these graphic novels; did the method employed remain the same between Sower and Talents, and how did you decide upon the approach you’ve used towards illustrating, coloring, and lettering this story?

DD: Butler is relatively spare in her visual descriptions, so any time there is mention of visual elements in the text, we take notice. Early in Parable of the Sower, Lauren tells a story from her younger days when her brother Keith would color on his arm with red marker to trick Lauren’s hyperempathy syndrome into making her bleed for real. We took that detail, and made the visual depictions of hyperempathy syndrome in both books red lines. 

Likewise, in lettering, both books are largely told through a combination of Lauren’s journal entries and Earthseed verses. So, in lettering Sower, I incorporated the visual iconography of lined notebook pages and a handwritten font into the caption boxes for Lauren’s narration. The Earthseed verses are depicted in a more traditional, serif font, as though printed in a book. Then, in Talents, I further elaborated on this by starting the story with a kind of faux-online bookstore website advertising The Books of the Living, where an Earthseed verse is depicted in the same font. In both Sower and Talents, we also incorporate scenes of Lauren writing directly into her notebook, and incorporate the visual motif of lined notebook pages in dream sequences, to really blend the non-diegetic element of narrative captions into the diegetic elements of, for example, Lauren’s journals, or printed copies of The Books of the Living. This kind of meta-visual vocabulary is pushed further in Parable of the Talents due to the inclusion of multiple narrators, including Lauren’s estranged daughter Asha Vere, but also brief interludes from Lauren’s husband, Bankole, and her brother, Marc. Each narrator’s circumstances for writing their respective texts lent themselves to the lettering of those texts. Bankole is an older, more traditional character, cajoled into writing, so he has an old school typewriter font, and his writing is accompanied by images that are more like film stills or photos than narrative sequences of panels. Marc is writing in a slick, modern “Christian American” religious/self-help text, diametrically opposed to the ideas in Earthseed, so his narration uses a sans-serif font to contrast the serifs of the Earthseed verses. 

And Asha Vere is talking directly to the reader from within a virtual reality space, so all the images surrounding her are being controlled by the character, almost like a 3D virtual reality Power Point presentation. 

JJ: Color is like the soundtrack to a graphic novel for me. I was taught color theory at Jackson State University as an undergrad. I totally hated that course. It was exacting, boring, painful, technical and one of the most important courses I’ve ever taken. Our color schemes were influenced by the surroundings themselves. I use Adobe Capture to create the color schemes from pictures taken of the Southern California landscape where I live. For Parable of the Talents, I worked very closely with Alexandria Batchelor to nail down the narrative tone and color code ever character for ease of production. She was a godsend. We hired a team of coloring assistants that sped up our process. I used Procreate to do the tones and shading in the inks. This decision sped up our workflow to a great degree. Color symbolism and how that color was conveyed was a huge part of the narrative. 

CBY: While we sadly lost Octavia Butler in 2006 – far too soon – she has an expansive body of writing that has yet to be treated to adaptation. Are there any plans to adapt Fledgling, the Xenogenesis series, or the Patternist series? Of the prospective sequels; Parable of the Trickster, Parable of the Teacher, Parable of Chaos, and Parable of Clay, have you both had a chance to review any of Butler’s notes to set the tone in closing Talents when so much fertile ground for exploration remained? What other work do you both have in store now that Parable of the Talents has been published?

DD: At the end of the day, we’re work-for-hire, and the decision of what gets adapted and when is above our pay grade. We’ve pitched a couple other potential adaptations, but much of that is up to Abrams ComicArts and, ultimately, the Butler Estate, as is proper. 

We’d definitely love to do another one, but it’s too early to say with any certainty what that might be, or when that might come out. But I do know that Wildseed is John’s favorite Butler book, so we’ve talked about that one, just among ourselves.

I haven’t seen Butler’s notes about the other Parable stories she thought about, but from what I’ve read, she didn’t really move far past the early planning stages on Trickster. I do want to emphasize that Sower and Parable of the Talents, while a duology, are written that each can also function on its own as a complete and satisfying story. And the other books Butler talked about doing in the Parables series would have taken place thousands of years after the stories told in those two books. While those other books are no doubt fertile ground for storytelling, I don’t really feel like those are stories I’d be the right one to tell. 

I can say that John and I do have another collaboration in the works for Abrams, but we’re not at liberty to reveal much more than that at the moment. 

JJ: We shall see what the future holds for us and Octavia E. Butler’s works. I do feel that, like Damian stated, it’s not our place to adapt any more of the Parable stories. 

CBY: We look forward to seeing what both of you come up with next! To close, I’d like to offer the opportunity for both of you to share any creative work (comics, film, art, music, literature, etc.) unrelated to this project or your own endeavors that has been catching your attention and inspiring you lately. What should our readers make sure they check out once they give The Parable of the Sower and The Parable of the Talents a read?

DD: One of my favorite recent animated sci-fi shows about the future is Pantheon on Netflix, based on short stories by Ken Liu. 

I also just finished a masterful graphic novel that is also about racial identity, American history, the power of storytelling, and adapting literature, Big Jim and the White Boy by David F. Walker and Marcus Kwame Anderson. Can’t recommend that book enough. 

And if you haven’t seen Sinners in the theater, do yourself a favor, that there is a movie worth every penny to see on the big screen.

JJ: Sinners is amazing, as Damian stated. I just read Backflash. It’s written by Mat Johnson and drawn by Steve Lieber. It’s on the Berger’s Books imprint at Dark Horse. I totally loved it! I really enjoyed Maurice Broadus’ Black Panther Declassified book. I am also enamored with Poker Face; this amazing new show on Peacock starring Natasha Lyonne. 

CBY: Based on my experience viewing Pantheon and Sinners, I am excited to pick up your reading recommendations! Gentlemen, thank you for gracing us with your perspectives today. Concerning our current societal challenges, Octavia Butler was one of the most prescient of speculative authors, leading the climate fiction genre out of the 20th century, and I think it behooves us all to see her work given new form for an expanded audience. If there are any portfolio, publication, or social media links you’d like to include regarding your respective work, please feel free to share with our readers before we depart.

DD: Thanks so much for having us, and for your thoughtful questions. You can find me at damianduffy.net. I have accounts on Facebook, Instagram, and BlueSky, but I’m not super active on them because, well, see some of my answers to the questions above. 

JJ: You can just reach me on johnjenningsstudio.com. All of the socials are there too.

Thanks for the amazing questions and I appreciate the opportunity! 

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